Conn Not 65 wrote: But I believe being successful at international rugby is about been able to adapt.

Conn, if you remember last year Joe said we would finish 3rd or 4th in the 6 nations. And we did exactly what he said. Because if you looked at the teams last year what he said made perfect sense. We play to a plan and that plan was going to deliver just that result.

So for our next 6th nations. We will play to the same gameplan. So Italy are italy, france don't care, scotland are poor and wales are worse. So I suspect we will end up second and Joe probably is aiming for that. And that's what really kills me. Joe knows his gameplan, knows who he will work to play that gameplan, and knows the result of that gameplan. I would rather be last in this group rather than accepting defeat from england. Its just pride. I want us to be better than england. Joe is more into statistics

Fair enough Dobby I take your point about how infuriating the Irish "drift" offence can be , in particular after watching how good Connacht were last year , without employing any of that type of play. But I believe being successful at international rugby is about been able to adapt. We beat South Africa away this year for the first time ever . We should have won the series. We beat the All Blacks for the first time and put 5 tries past them. We must be doing something right.... Well that was then . This is now Roll on Cardiff !

Conn Not 65 wrote: Dobby you must have been watching a different game to me ! we were down 3 of our top players after 20 odd minutes and rather than putting the heads down and accepting the inevitable they took the game to NZ over and over again that they didn't score more was unfortunate but they were playing against the greatest albeit the most cynical team in world rugby. As regards boring strategy Seriously!! This isn't Sevens rugby...

Folks roll out the 'drift' defence and how it works. What I see with Ireland is a drift defence and a drift offence. And the drift offence is what grates on me. You watch murray flinging the ball around and it all looks good. But it isn't. Its simply a scrum half who plays to a centre or an outhalf who crashes the line. And the game gradually moves from one side of the field to the other. Its all so gradual that the two wingers are simply out of space by the time they ever receive the ball and the fullback simply hasn't a hope of contributing to this forward bash. So you listen to Murray Kinsella and Eddie O'Sullivan earlier this week and Eddie explains exactly why Connacht looked so good. And what is explained took Connacht an age to perfect with Aly but we got there. Now we have Andrew and he tries but it will take him time and Connacht suffer in the process waiting for him to come up to speed. And now Andrew is out until next February things need to be rethought.

But getting back to the international game. What is a practical solution to the Irish gameplan? From my perspective you need to look at quicker offloading. Many journalists would have you believe that Connacht play like the All Blacks. I would argue that point. Yes the All Blacks play exciting rugby but like all international teams they take the risk out of it as much as possible. So in fact they play nothing like Connacht. International rugby is not a risk/reward game. International rugby is a very conservative gameplan and the best team is the one that executes it the best. What the All Blacks do, that is different to Ireland, and similar to how England play, is a quick offloading game that provides the opportunities for players to seek space in a defensive line.

It has always been my crib that I see Murray slapping the arse of his pack player and moving gradually and then it gets to the stage that every area is covered defensively. And I do describe why wingers and fullback are useless in an Irish setup unless playing a moderate to poor team. Anyway that's my viewpoint

Dobby you must have been watching a different game to me ! we were down 3 of our top players after 20 odd minutes and rather than putting the heads down and accepting the inevitable they took the game to NZ over and over again that they didn't score more was unfortunate but they were playing against the greatest albeit the most cynical team in world rugby. As regards boring strategy Seriously!! This isn't Sevens rugby...

dobby wrote: amazing game of rugby. that said surely the kearney era is done (hopefully), trimble is the most ineffective winger known to man. heaslip was incredible, vdf was fantastic, ringrose was ringrose simply brilliant. trust in the new joe.

Jeez Dobby will you lighten up! Your'e losing the run of yourself- it's only a game!

and yet what a boring strategy,

amazing game of rugby. that said surely the kearney era is done (hopefully), trimble is the most ineffective winger known to man. heaslip was incredible, vdf was fantastic, ringrose was ringrose simply brilliant. trust in the new joe.

Long shot I know but anyone have any leads for tickets for today's game?

Some good points there dobby. In a game where its so hard to find space offloads are vital for breaking the opposition defensive line imo, but it doesn't mean its the only way to score of course.

I think NZ will go after the parts of the game where they lost out last time, ie the scrum and lineout. Retallick and Whitelock back is massive. I would have picked VDF instead of SOB, but last time he played NZ he harassed Aaron Smith which was huge for us so perhaps Schmidt is hoping for the same again. I don't see what part of the game we're going to be better than NZ (possibly at centre?) and that makes it very hard to see a win.

can't remember where I saw it (probably the42) but 3 out of 4 of the ABs tries came from previous offloads in the move while none of the Irish tries came from offloads in the Chicago win. So Ireland won that game which makes you wonder which team is right? Myself, I love the offloading game, but Connacht probably brings it to ridiculous levels. That said Finlays offload to Tiernan probably supplied a quality of try that hasn't been witnessed in Ireland in quite some considerable time. And if we rate the ABs as being the best team in the world maybe we need to think and play faster like they do.

I suggest that the ABs had a secondary team against Ireland in Chicago. Their team announcement for the Aviva would hint they are not making that mistake twice. On the Irish side we have SOB who is yet to prove he is back to his best, Henderson who lacks game-time, and the loss of Dillane is huge. I would not be holding my breath on a result. I do not believe that Ireland will break the ABs down so easy this time with their direct style of rugby.

greyingbeard wrote: Dillan out of the 23, apparently he sat out training yesterday and today

from The 42 "The expectation was that Ultan Dillane had done enough to keep the reserve second row position this weekend, although it transpires that he is carrying an injury and has therefore struggled to train this week."

Dillan out of the 23, apparently he sat out training yesterday and today

sligsup wrote: Trimble "Awful" are you looking at his performances through your Connacht tinted glasses. Trimble has being one of Irelands most consistent wingers. May not have the raw speed of Niyi or flare of Zebo but would be a far more intelligent rugby brain and defensively robust winger which ticks alot of boxes for Joe.

You're probably right about those Connacht tinted glasses. Just watching the game on Saturday and the first kick into the Irish 22 Earls collects, has Tiernan outside him, but selects to run into opposition, and I just groaned. Earls is so totally one-dimensional it drives me berserk. So its nice to at least see Zebo looking like he will take over that position. So then we come to Trimble. Defensively good. But simply not in the loop going forward. Hr was replaced in his final game for Ulster before the Autumn Internationals because he was so bad.

I do hope if there is one thing Joe took out of the performance on Saturday is that controlled offloading (Finlay to Tiernan) can add value to the Irish game and make it more watchable. I do believe that Joe can make a controlled offloading game work rather than a Murray boxkicking solution backed up by brawn which is not pretty to watch.

Trimble "Awful" are you looking at his performances through your Connacht tinted glasses. Trimble has being one of Irelands most consistent wingers. May not have the raw speed of Niyi or flare of Zebo but would be a far more intelligent rugby brain and defensively robust winger which ticks alot of boxes for Joe.

Enjoyed Paynes version of henshaw. A superstar in the making. But more important easy to play outside as he makes it easy. Think bundee did benefit from that. That said I very very impressed with ringrose. Even tiernans second try where tiernan was totally ahead of the line ringrose reminded him by playing the perfect pass that tiernan had to reach back to grasp. Poor game management by tiernan but there is nothing shoddy about ringrose. I would love to see him beside henshaw with Payne at fullback. Zebo is a really good winger. The only problem is to replace Trimble who is simply awful

There might be a handful of changes for the Australia game, but it's actually as or more important than the NZ game as they're one of the teams we could supplant in the top 4 ahead of the World Cup draw.