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11 years 5 months ago #11185

Devils own wrote:

Borders no.2 wrote: Fa'fita has serious power but from what I've seen of him I'd worry about his ability to offload and his distribution. He definitely can help as a battering ram option though which is vital at times just to get go forward ball. He looks a useful acquisition especially as he's Irish qualified. I'd see his role as off the bench also, maybe a bit earlier than he was brought on tonight.

I think these sort of signings are Connacht getting it right. We've got another IQ centre option for half nothing. We brought in some duds over a number of years but we got Marmion under the radar and I'm sure the other provinces are kicking themselves over that one. White, Faloon and Parks are good acquisitions. The likes of Kearney have shown promise as well. Cooney, Gardiner and these lads might and mightn't work out but we're getting them on our books and if they're good enough we can get them contracted.

We don't have the type of money of a Harlequins of the big French teams but some good recruitment like this allied to the development of our own local young players can make us a strong team.


ya i agree indigenous talent from our academy is the number one goal then if we have to supplement certain areas we can go looking. ya he probably needs to work on distribution and his overall game but who doesnt but i'll say it again 113kg, Bastareaud is only 112kg and his distribution is poor but he trampled all over ireland by himself when he played us, id play a earls type player outside him perfect combo was thinking maybe henshaw would be the closest we have. Ok thats the last mention


DO where do you think most of the Quins team came from?

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11 years 5 months ago #11186

Quin Kong wrote:

Devils own wrote:

Borders no.2 wrote: Fa'fita has serious power but from what I've seen of him I'd worry about his ability to offload and his distribution. He definitely can help as a battering ram option though which is vital at times just to get go forward ball. He looks a useful acquisition especially as he's Irish qualified. I'd see his role as off the bench also, maybe a bit earlier than he was brought on tonight.

I think these sort of signings are Connacht getting it right. We've got another IQ centre option for half nothing. We brought in some duds over a number of years but we got Marmion under the radar and I'm sure the other provinces are kicking themselves over that one. White, Faloon and Parks are good acquisitions. The likes of Kearney have shown promise as well. Cooney, Gardiner and these lads might and mightn't work out but we're getting them on our books and if they're good enough we can get them contracted.

We don't have the type of money of a Harlequins of the big French teams but some good recruitment like this allied to the development of our own local young players can make us a strong team.


ya i agree indigenous talent from our academy is the number one goal then if we have to supplement certain areas we can go looking. ya he probably needs to work on distribution and his overall game but who doesnt but i'll say it again 113kg, Bastareaud is only 112kg and his distribution is poor but he trampled all over ireland by himself when he played us, id play a earls type player outside him perfect combo was thinking maybe henshaw would be the closest we have. Ok thats the last mention


DO where do you think most of the Quins team came from?


What you do mean Kong?

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11 years 5 months ago #11187

Quin Kong wrote:

Devils own wrote:

Borders no.2 wrote: Fa'fita has serious power but from what I've seen of him I'd worry about his ability to offload and his distribution. He definitely can help as a battering ram option though which is vital at times just to get go forward ball. He looks a useful acquisition especially as he's Irish qualified. I'd see his role as off the bench also, maybe a bit earlier than he was brought on tonight.

I think these sort of signings are Connacht getting it right. We've got another IQ centre option for half nothing. We brought in some duds over a number of years but we got Marmion under the radar and I'm sure the other provinces are kicking themselves over that one. White, Faloon and Parks are good acquisitions. The likes of Kearney have shown promise as well. Cooney, Gardiner and these lads might and mightn't work out but we're getting them on our books and if they're good enough we can get them contracted.

We don't have the type of money of a Harlequins of the big French teams but some good recruitment like this allied to the development of our own local young players can make us a strong team.


ya i agree indigenous talent from our academy is the number one goal then if we have to supplement certain areas we can go looking. ya he probably needs to work on distribution and his overall game but who doesnt but i'll say it again 113kg, Bastareaud is only 112kg and his distribution is poor but he trampled all over ireland by himself when he played us, id play a earls type player outside him perfect combo was thinking maybe henshaw would be the closest we have. Ok thats the last mention


DO where do you think most of the Quins team came from?


Yes I know Harlequins have a good academy and a number of ye're players came through that but Harlequins have the money to pump into the academy to bring in the talent which is a very sound basis for every team to develop.

Wasn't picking out Harlequins specifically more just saying we could never afford a player like Nick Evans or even a Botica. I know there are many more high profile imports with Toulon and Racing and so forth.

Given our limited budget we have to settle for Parks and Nikora as our fly half options.

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11 years 5 months ago #11188

Sorry DO. B No 2 Botica was playing in France seconds when we got him although I'll give you NEv as a high profile signing! :)

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11 years 5 months ago #11189

Fair enough, seems like ye're coaching team / scouts are doing their homework with regards to signings best of luck to ye. We could probably learn a thing or two given our mixed performance in terms of transfers.

Think the q/f place is all but secured for ye now. 10 points against Zebre should be a formality. 4 or 5 against us at the Stoop and then down to Biarritz for the last game to decide home or away for quarter-final.

Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by Borders no.2.

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11 years 5 months ago #11190

Regarding the whole Jack Carty at 15 thing. I think this is relevant:

IN FOCUS OUTHALVES AT FULLBACK: JOHN O’SULLIVAN gets the views of a former prodigy on the merits of switching from outhalf to fullback

THE NATURAL inclination for a coach to include the best footballers in a team occasionally throws up a delicate conundrum. Are some positions interchangeable without any diminution in impact? It’s not an exact science, often relying on intuition.

The genesis for the experiment is often the expediency of injury but there are times when a desire to accommodate a skilful player warrants a risk. The sanitised training environment is a flawed indicator; there is no substitute for the competitive forum.

In recent times Ian Madigan (Leinster) and Ian Keatley (Munster), ostensibly outhalves, have been asked to embrace the fullback berth for their respective provinces, though the two scenarios are appreciably different in origin.

Injuries to Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald and Dave Kearney, a decision not to promote Fionn Carr and play Isa Nacewa on the wing was the preamble to Leinster coach Joe Schmidt handing Madigan the number 15 jersey. It was a bold decision, largely vindicated in the manner in which the player has adapted. It is, though, a short-term solution.

Rob Penney chose to select Keatley at fullback in preference to Denis Hurley for last Saturday’s game against Racing Metro 92 in the Stade de France. Keatley had started the season well at outhalf in the absence of Ronan O’Gara but once Munster and Ireland’s record points’ scorer returned, the latter was pencilled in to start the games against Leinster and Racing Metro.

Keatley came on as a replacement in the Aviva Stadium but for the game in Paris began at fullback before moving into the role of pivot – he’ll play outhalf at the weekend – when O’Gara pulled up lame with a hamstring injury.

The carrot of a starting role supersedes any anxiety about switching positions. It’s a calculated gamble in both the mind of the coach and player. There are risks, though, and one person who can offer a candid appreciation of the difficulty of moving from outhalf to fullback is Jeremy Staunton.

The 32-year-old retired from professional rugby at the end of last season, a career that began with Garryowen and Munster and took in Harlequins, Wasps, London Irish, Wasps again, Leicester Tigers, Ireland Youths, Under 21s, A and senior teams.

Staunton was a teenage prodigy, playing for the Ireland Under-21 team as an 18-year-old in 1999 and then a month later selected for the Irish A side. He toured Australia that summer, sitting on the bench during the second Test for Warren Gatland’s Ireland, roughly five weeks after his 19th birthday.

The other two outhalves in that party were Eric Elwood and David Humphreys. Staunton possessed flair, vision, strength, was a fine place-kicker and a big punter of the ball; at six foot and 14 and a half stone he was impressively physical in defence.

However, he had a rival closer to home. Ronan O’Gara, three years Staunton’s senior, got the drop on the Munster number 10 jersey and in 2000 the green shirt. Munster coach at the time Declan Kidney had two outstanding footballers but room for one initially.

Staunton spent a great deal of time on the bench before eventually being tried at fullback. The arrival of All Black colossus Christian Cullen in 2003 persuaded him to leave for Harlequins and a career in England. He won five Irish caps, starting with a try-scoring debut against Samoa in 2001, three more as a replacement outhalf and a final outing, as the starting 10 against Argentina in 2007.

He was so naturally gifted, worked hard and was dedicated but fate proved to be a cruel mistress. Fullback was never the right vehicle – it’s like asking legendary guitarist Jimmy Page to take up drums – but inside centre might have been. That option would come too late. It’s a matter of conjecture about where his career might have gone had he been left to develop as an outhalf. It’s hard to escape the feeling that the system in Ireland failed him.

Staunton is back in Ireland and sitting exams to become a secondary school teacher. “I suppose if you look back to the 1970s and 80s there would have been a view that outhalf and fullback were interchangeable. I don’t think it works. I believe it’s possible to switch from outhalf to centre but the demands at fullback are way removed from outhalf.

“The modern fullback has to be excellent in the air, very quick and possess a big boot. Being quick enough to play outhalf and make line-breaks is not the same as defending the last man, usually the winger, with lots of space to close down. You can be very physical, which I think Madigan and Keatley are at outhalf, but if you go for a big hit at fullback and miss, your man’s under the posts.

“You can be very isolated in terms of the ebb and flow of the game. You don’t dictate it like you do at outhalf. The reason that you’re chosen in the first place is for your ability as an outhalf. The skill set at fullback is different and I’d equate it to being a goalkeeper in football.

“You might have very little to do for the majority of a match but because you’re isolated as the last man, one error and you can be crucified.”

In trying to come up with an analogy to explain the difference, Staunton points out: “You wouldn’t ask Dan Carter to play fullback, yet he’s played inside centre. There’s a greater empathy between those positions. Jonny Wilkinson is another example and conversely you wouldn’t suggest that Israel Dagg or Jason Robinson play outhalf.

“The higher the level you play, the faster the game and the more difficult it becomes to switch between the two. If you are used to running a game the last thing you want is to be limited to five or six touches, wholly reliant on virtually the entire team to get a chance in an attacking capacity. It’s like picking someone to play and then not giving him the ball.

“I enjoyed my year and a half at fullback with Munster but only after I had time to adapt. It takes a while no matter how good a player but it never compensates for being in the centre of the action.” Keatley and Madigan would understand.


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Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by connachtexile.

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11 years 5 months ago #11191

Fifita is good but his handling isn't up to par yet. Go and look at his other games at this level he knocks on alot. Now that might be down to him just getting used to the faster pace of Rugby than he's used to but he's nowhere near the finished product. That said he's tailor made for a game like this in which we need someone to break the line and get some vital yards. George today was immense for us.

As for the Ref I thought he was in Connacht's favour. I saw the game on tv and there was a few penalties that were home town decisions imo.

It was a killer that we lost but and didn't get a point but we gave a good account of ourselves and are younger guys really came through.

P.S. Was having trouble with posting which is why I had to post this in 2 parts.


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Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by connachtexile.

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11 years 5 months ago #11193

Disappointing result. We played very well in parts and especially well for the first twenty.

When Quins had possession though were always just hanging on in defence, they had a bit more physicality about them.

Felt we never got the balance right at the breakdown. We seemed to go through phases of getting too many players into the breakdown with the ball won, or not enough when there was a sniff of winning it.

Macca's early steal apart we didn't get anywhere near their lineout and nowhere near enough to even disrupt their possession from either set piece, this was always going to lead to big trouble against a team of Quins calibre.

Mul was exposed for Care's first try it was Marmion's error he should have tracked Care once it clear the ball was lost, but I was really very disappointed with Mul's effort for the second one. After watching him jog over for the first he should have absolutely destroyed care for the second. Ref had flagged a penalty already at that stage so he just needed to do whatever to make sure it was only three.

No doubt about it we're a much stronger outfit than we have been in the past, but some of our old warriors are beginning to look just that at this level of intensity. Still really believe we should have got Damien Browne back to supplement Swifty and to add the extra level of size and experience into our engine room...

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11 years 5 months ago #11195

That was good a game of rugby as I've seen in the Sportsground. Our performance last night would often be enough to give us a famous win - but that requires the other side to be out of sorts. Quins were as professional and efficient as Toulouse last year, but this was a game right to the end.

Backline is massively improved from last year due to Parks. And having a kicker that gets 6 from 6 from tricky angles is a huge change too. Marmion is still very raw. Nice breaks and one fantastic defensive tackle but needs to work on the box kicking. Not sure if he was partially at fault for Care's first. That was a shocking try to give away - U13's stuff. The scrummaging was poor too, and Buckley, who has been great all season was poor overall and very lucky not to get binned. The lineout was the since last year, which is great to see.

All in all no complaints. That was a fair reflection of where we are and where they are, and the handicappers got the 8 point spread bang on.

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11 years 5 months ago #11196

Borders no.2 wrote: First of all the major negative of the night was the restarts in the first half. Ultimately our inability to deal with the Harlequins restart to the right side on 4 or 5 occasions cost us dearly. Harlequins are one team you can't give free possession too because they will hold on to it and eventually get a score from it. Its a small thing but was directly / indirectly attributable for the majority of Harlequins points in the first half. We were very good in the first half imo but at half time we had conceded 24 points which is far far too many.


Fully agree with this. This needed to be dealt with after the very first restart. A leader on the pitch was needed to say to McCarthy to get over tho the right side to get in the air for these. Naopu was left standing to catch these restarts and the Quins players won almost all of them. Repeated lapses oversights like these need to be cut out. It gave Quins a lot of possession in the first half that we could have used. I imagine it is difficut for the coaching team to communicate with the team during the match but it should have been nipped in the bud, not a source of constant possession for the opposition.

Great game other than that.

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11 years 5 months ago #11197

was happy enough with our performance last night, was it just me or was the ref v lenient in policing quins going offside?

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11 years 5 months ago #11198

It was the first game I have seen all year due to work commitments, and more than likely I m not going to see as much as Id like until after xmas, but Im sure I ll get someone else to use my season ticket.
I wasnt really following the build up to the game i.e. big crowd expected etc so I was pleasantly surprised to get in to the Clan Terrace at 5:10 to see the terrace almost full and behind the goals filling up already. Big Crowd over 8000 which was brillant.

The team has improved alot from last year as well, I was expecting a roasting of quins yesterday in revenge for last years game. But with Parks in the team he brings alot of experience and makes some very good decisions at crucial times.

We ran out of steam at the end of the first half and we needed the break, came out in the second half with the foot on the pedal again but our defense couldnt cope, It seemed when ever quins came at us they always got something.
Look yes the Ref was poor at times but Im not one of these that blames everything on the ref. Yes there is no harm giving him some abuse to let him know where he is true Im all for that but dont walk out of the ground at the end thinking the ref was the sole problem to us losing.
Vainikolo was good and Buckley. We beat quins last year on the hop(on the back of 14 defeats in a row i think) in very bad conditions, we played them this year early in the comp in good conditions and I was very proud of them. We need to look at getting something now from Biarritz!

Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by Connman.

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11 years 5 months ago #11201

Edward Eagle wrote: was happy enough with our performance last night, was it just me or was the ref v lenient in policing quins going offside?


Yes there were a few dodgy ones alright, he pinged us twice for offside and they were never pinged

He also gave a crazy knock on against Vainikolo when Henshaw looked like he could have gone the length of the field on a breakaway.

There was also a couple of times late in the game where Quins were holding onto the ball and some of their breakdown entries were very obviously off their feet, was standing near Gavin Duffy and he was livid, as were the management on the sideline.

However, I have no gripes with the result, Quins were the better side. Garces is a good ref, the way rugby is now, you're never going to get all the decisions we want

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11 years 5 months ago #11202

Garces didn't seem to be reffing the players holding onto the ball at all (and if you notice this then you use it to your advantage). Thought he had a good game other than that.

Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by overstrander.

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11 years 5 months ago #11207

connachtexile wrote: Regarding the whole Jack Carty at 15 thing. I think this is relevant:

<strong>IN FOCUS OUTHALVES AT FULLBACK:</strong> JOHN O’SULLIVAN gets the views of a former prodigy on the merits of switching from outhalf to fullback

THE NATURAL inclination for a coach to include the best footballers in a team occasionally throws up a delicate conundrum. Are some positions interchangeable without any diminution in impact? It’s not an exact science, often relying on intuition.

The genesis for the experiment is often the expediency of injury but there are times when a desire to accommodate a skilful player warrants a risk. The sanitised training environment is a flawed indicator; there is no substitute for the competitive forum.

In recent times Ian Madigan (Leinster) and Ian Keatley (Munster), ostensibly outhalves, have been asked to embrace the fullback berth for their respective provinces, though the two scenarios are appreciably different in origin.

Injuries to Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald and Dave Kearney, a decision not to promote Fionn Carr and play Isa Nacewa on the wing was the preamble to Leinster coach Joe Schmidt handing Madigan the number 15 jersey. It was a bold decision, largely vindicated in the manner in which the player has adapted. It is, though, a short-term solution.

Rob Penney chose to select Keatley at fullback in preference to Denis Hurley for last Saturday’s game against Racing Metro 92 in the Stade de France. Keatley had started the season well at outhalf in the absence of Ronan O’Gara but once Munster and Ireland’s record points’ scorer returned, the latter was pencilled in to start the games against Leinster and Racing Metro.

Keatley came on as a replacement in the Aviva Stadium but for the game in Paris began at fullback before moving into the role of pivot – he’ll play outhalf at the weekend – when O’Gara pulled up lame with a hamstring injury.

The carrot of a starting role supersedes any anxiety about switching positions. It’s a calculated gamble in both the mind of the coach and player. There are risks, though, and one person who can offer a candid appreciation of the difficulty of moving from outhalf to fullback is Jeremy Staunton.

The 32-year-old retired from professional rugby at the end of last season, a career that began with Garryowen and Munster and took in Harlequins, Wasps, London Irish, Wasps again, Leicester Tigers, Ireland Youths, Under 21s, A and senior teams.

Staunton was a teenage prodigy, playing for the Ireland Under-21 team as an 18-year-old in 1999 and then a month later selected for the Irish A side. He toured Australia that summer, sitting on the bench during the second Test for Warren Gatland’s Ireland, roughly five weeks after his 19th birthday.

The other two outhalves in that party were Eric Elwood and David Humphreys. Staunton possessed flair, vision, strength, was a fine place-kicker and a big punter of the ball; at six foot and 14 and a half stone he was impressively physical in defence.

However, he had a rival closer to home. Ronan O’Gara, three years Staunton’s senior, got the drop on the Munster number 10 jersey and in 2000 the green shirt. Munster coach at the time Declan Kidney had two outstanding footballers but room for one initially.

Staunton spent a great deal of time on the bench before eventually being tried at fullback. The arrival of All Black colossus Christian Cullen in 2003 persuaded him to leave for Harlequins and a career in England. He won five Irish caps, starting with a try-scoring debut against Samoa in 2001, three more as a replacement outhalf and a final outing, as the starting 10 against Argentina in 2007.

He was so naturally gifted, worked hard and was dedicated but fate proved to be a cruel mistress. Fullback was never the right vehicle – it’s like asking legendary guitarist Jimmy Page to take up drums – but inside centre might have been. That option would come too late. It’s a matter of conjecture about where his career might have gone had he been left to develop as an outhalf. It’s hard to escape the feeling that the system in Ireland failed him.

Staunton is back in Ireland and sitting exams to become a secondary school teacher. “I suppose if you look back to the 1970s and 80s there would have been a view that outhalf and fullback were interchangeable. I don’t think it works. I believe it’s possible to switch from outhalf to centre but the demands at fullback are way removed from outhalf.

“The modern fullback has to be excellent in the air, very quick and possess a big boot. Being quick enough to play outhalf and make line-breaks is not the same as defending the last man, usually the winger, with lots of space to close down. You can be very physical, which I think Madigan and Keatley are at outhalf, but if you go for a big hit at fullback and miss, your man’s under the posts.

“You can be very isolated in terms of the ebb and flow of the game. You don’t dictate it like you do at outhalf. The reason that you’re chosen in the first place is for your ability as an outhalf. The skill set at fullback is different and I’d equate it to being a goalkeeper in football.

“You might have very little to do for the majority of a match but because you’re isolated as the last man, one error and you can be crucified.”

In trying to come up with an analogy to explain the difference, Staunton points out: “You wouldn’t ask Dan Carter to play fullback, yet he’s played inside centre. There’s a greater empathy between those positions. Jonny Wilkinson is another example and conversely you wouldn’t suggest that Israel Dagg or Jason Robinson play outhalf.

“The higher the level you play, the faster the game and the more difficult it becomes to switch between the two. If you are used to running a game the last thing you want is to be limited to five or six touches, wholly reliant on virtually the entire team to get a chance in an attacking capacity. It’s like picking someone to play and then not giving him the ball.

“I enjoyed my year and a half at fullback with Munster but only after I had time to adapt. It takes a while no matter how good a player but it never compensates for being in the centre of the action.” Keatley and Madigan would understand.


Good article staunton is a bad example in my opinion was never a viable 10 and his only option was then a makeshift 15 but his defense was far to poor and he wasnt effective in attack, each situation is based on its own merits ala madigan and keatley for example i belive madigan is a true 10 with potential international quality but at present his skills can be utilised to an extent at 15 due to injuries but i expect him to revert to fighting for the 10 jersey rapidly, keately is an okayish 10 who was let go by leinster and he could end up being bounced between postions. In connacht our resources are limited and its imperative we get our most talented players available on the pitch. Carty showed in his short cameo that we cant afford to not play him in some context but not harm whatsoever in having it as a option, i agree he would only be a short term option to account for injures etc and should alternate with 10 as much as possible. I dont think the mcsharry griffen duo while not bad has the invention our the power to trouble the big dogs defences thats why i would like to see what a different combo with parks running the show i dont think any games where parks wasnt runnning the show can be used to judge as nikora cant run a backline full stop.

Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by Devils own.

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11 years 5 months ago #11209

I think Carty at the moment is best served in the B&I at the moment he's getting full time games and it you look at the teams put out against us it's against a very high level of standards. I see your point at 15 but I think 12 with him learning next to Parks would be best that said he looks like a talented guy so who knows. To be honest Hemshaw is doing so well at 15 there I'd be loathe to drop him.


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